Interview: Qiu Anxiong

Qiu Anxiong: Staring into Amnesia, 2008. 25x5 meter Mixed media

I would like to ask you about the title of the exhibition, Utopia. I know you didn’t decide that title, the museum did, and they have three different shows under the same title. How do you feel the title connects with your work?

At first I didn’t know the title of the exhibition, but they told me - and I think it’s okay. It’s about people who want to make society a better place. I think Staring into Amnesia is the most important in the exhibition, and it’s about the history of the Chinese people in the last century and how they wanted to make a new world. In that way it relates very well to the titel Utopia. From the end of the 19th century, China stopped being strong, and from that point the Chinese people wanted to change the situation. What could they do? They advanced in the technological field and started to adopt some of the ideas of the West and the European fortune. Later the communist party got the power over China. They wanted to make a real, new, strong and independent China. They also wanted to create an utopia. In the end, the utopia is not real because the people are not happy. It looks like happiness but is pretend. However, after the cultural revolution, after the 80’s, due to economical changes, the Chinese really lost their ideas and spirit. They thought that money and material things were those of most importance.

So what you are saying is that the until the 80’s the Chinese still had this utopia vision. And now it’s gone?

Yes, after the cultural revolution they got another dream. I think that China still had a dream about a new world after the 80’s, not through the communist theory, but through science and technique and the new humanistic culture. They started to know more about western new wave theory. But a lot of the big dreams were broken, and no one seemed to care. They just wanted to think about life right now, the temporary life. In their time they started to give up all the dreams. I guess they wanted to try to chase the ”real” things in life.

And that’s what it’s like now?

Yes. In fact, in these 30 years efter the cultural revolution China has changed a lot. When I was a child, I could never have imagined what my life would be like - what it’s like now. Everything is completely different. It’s a miracle actually. It’s two different worlds. Maybe therefore I think we should start to consider these changes and how they came about, and what we experienced. Many Chinese people have good lives, in the material sense. The problem is that they don’t know what to do when they have the money and the car and the house. They just drink, eat and...

Drink, eat and be happy?

Well, no. They are not really happy I think. I think they’re confused. I’m confused as well.

Qiu Anxiong: Staring into Amnesia, 2008. 25x5 meter Mixed media		Qiu Anxiong: Staring into Amnesia, 2008. 25x5 meter Mixed media

You mentioned at one point, that the train was based on your experience of travelling with this specific type of train...

Yes, I did not only use it as an object that takes up space of course. It is also the memory of this kind of train from my childhood, which is deeply rooted in the artwork. In those days everybody in China, except the leader in government who travelled by plane, would take this type of train when travelling. So for me it’s a personal experience and at the same time it’s a memory of the Chinese people. Every time I’ve talked to someone Chinese about this work, they’ve always told me their personal stories about their memories concerning this train. Even the smell of the train evokes memories.

The documentary film is about the Chinese history from the beginning of the last century to the culutral revolution. This periode includes the biggest change of China from a traditional society to the modern society. And I think this process of change is still going on. In this process the Chinese people have gotten an idea of ”utopia”. They want to make a new China, they want to make a new country and be strong, rich and good. In the last century the people of China have all been wanting to meet these dreams, but until now it hasn’t been possible. Now the economic state of the country enables us to do so. But on the other hand I also think we forgot something along the way. In relation to this, the documentary and the image wants to record and memorise, but sometimes we find that everything is not always about memorising and memory- sometimes it’s about forgetting. And many Chinese people already forgot exactly that. They just think about the future and that they want to make a new future. They even have the idea that new things do not have any connections with the old things. I think that might be a mistake.

In our history theres’a a lot of pain. People don’t want to face the history. They want to forget the pain. Even now many Chinese visitores this carrage don’t want to look at the work and face it. They just want to leave. I think you should face it. Because that’s where you come from.

So is it healing in a way?

I think you can never really forget what happened. You just cover your eyes or look the other way. I do this because I want to express my feelings about this history – the memory and the forgetting of our times. This train really reminds our generations of many things. Everybody knows stories about these kinds of trains. Many that have seen this work and have met me, have told me stories about how they travelled in these trains. It seems very far away. Just like a feeling you can’t reach.

How do you think it’s going to work being exhibited in here in the West were people don’t have any personal memories connected to the train?

I think that they’ll be able to feel the time. It’s doesn’t need explanation. When you sit there you can feel it, because the image is true - something real happened in here. The fortune or the story isn’t only about the Chinese people, it’s about all people. Of course the details relate to China, but the ”insides” are the same.

Qiu Anxiong: Staring into Amnesia, 2008. 25x5 meter Mixed media		Qiu Anxiong: Staring into Amnesia, 2008. 25x5 meter Mixed media		Qiu Anxiong: Staring into Amnesia, 2008. 25x5 meter Mixed media

Earlier you mentioned the images in the windows. As far as I can tell it’s two different kind of images?

Yes. Half is documentary and half is silhouettes - a modern shadow theather. It’s about daily life in our experience. It’s about friends, the family, the lover, the memory of movies I saw in my childhood and naturally a lot of imagination.

I was wondering why you have chosen to mix those two kinds of technic?

The documentary is about the history, which is about big and important things. The shadows are the personal appearances. Those are the small things, which are also important in every element of society. They also construct the history. Maybe not directly or very loudly - but under the surface.

Qiu Anxiong: Fly to South, 2006. Animation film still		Qiu Anxiong: Fly to South, 2006. Animation film still

How is the connection between the train and the three animated films? The train seems to be very hung up on themes concerning Chinese history, while both films work with fantastic utopias...

This work is my first animation film. When I started making it 2005 I didn't have an exact plan for where it was going. It's about some personal feelings and and dreamy imaginations concerning some of the things I care about; the environment and the development of the cities.

I've been told that the technic you use for the drawings in the films, is a traditional Chinese way of drawing...?

It's not really the same technic, but it looks a lot like it. I paint on canvas using acrylic which looks quite similar to ink. I don't consider it very important which material I use as long as the result feels like. I like traditional Chinese landscape painting very much, and I'm influenced by it because it has a special place in Chinese art history. In the film you can see it used on contemporary urban motifs. I find it very important that what's new and what's goes hand in hand. From old things and thoughts you can find the wisdom and inspiration to create new things, and therefor you must always remember the past and bring it with you.

Qiu Anxiong: The New Book of Mountains and Seas, 2006. Animation film still		Qiu Anxiong: The New Book of Mountains and Seas, 2006. Animation film still

Qiu Anxiong: The New Book of Mountains and Seas, 2006. Animation film still		Qiu Anxiong: The New Book of Mountains and Seas, 2006. Animation film still

So the way you use the technic in your films is somehow similar to the contend or idea of the train wagon?

My work always reflects about time. You could say that time is my main theme, and all the pieces I show here is about that; about the present and the past, about memory an what has been forgotten. For example the video The New Book of Mountains and Seas is about the modern world, but I've shown it in a broader perspective by using an ancient Chinese book as a model. It's a tale about modern civilization.

When I see this film it reminds me more of a dystopia than an utopia...

Modern civilization came out of an idea about creating an utopia, I think. This is exactly what's happened in China recently; we throw everything old away and start from scratsch. Now people have realized that loosing your history is also loosing your identity, and have started to be more protective of the old culture, but I'm afraid it's not going to help. They change everything into something commercial. For example the old parts of the town has survived, but at the same time they've been turned into turist attractions, which destroys all the life in the neighborhood. It's an ongoing problem with the modern mentality that people don't realize what's important. In ancient Chinese culture there was a saying, that you must know there to stop, because human nature is to always want more. Modern people don't believe in that. They've lost control.

Thank you.

Qiu Anxiong: Staring into Amnesia, 2008. 25x5 meter mixed media