Interview: Jonathan Meese at Bo Bjerggaard

Jonathan Meese: BABYPROPAGANDADDY'S Metabolismys (FISHYALARM IN ANTARKTIKA ON BOHRINSEL "MOOMIN") at Galleri Bo Bjerggaard

What's this?

It's some paint and I put the things on to it, and later I want to put more paint, so it sticks to the things.

This room is somehow made for the exhibition.

One can see that. How do you choose all those things?

I just collect them at home and bring them in the airplane. This is always the last moment. Then we also buy some stuff here, but not a lot. It's more the paint. It's just the toys that are necessary for the date... for tomorrow.

You must have a lot of stuff. In Malmö you brought a bag of stuff

Yes. I always buy stuff. For example these toys... Stofftiere... teddybearstuff... propaganteddy... I always buy them, always the same. I love these animals of the sea.

Why?

They are the best, They look the best. They have the nicest colour. They are the strongest. They are like weapons... the shark, the Hammerhaie, the dolphins... then you have the parrots. You have the birds. They are always together. It's all about animalism.

Animalism?

Animalism. That's the best. They are so strong. They don't need us.

You like that?

I love it. They don't need us. We need them, but they don't need us. We eat them, we swim with them, we have dogs and cats, but in fact they don't need us. We always think they are here for us, but they are there for themselves.

Like art?

Absolutely... I think the animals of the sea are very precise. They can be like the star, seestern. They have to be aerodynamic, like torpedoes. They are the weapons of the sea.

Jonathan Meese: BABYPROPAGANDADDY'S Metabolismys (FISHYALARM IN ANTARKTIKA ON BOHRINSEL "MOOMIN") at Galleri Bo Bjerggaard

This is you're first gallery show in Copenhagen, in Scandinavia in fact

Yes.

Is it ok?

It's very ok. I can do what is necessary. I have freedom. I had to bring a lot of stuff. It's propaganda. Bringing lot's of toys.

How's that

It's important to show a lot, to put down you're trousers, to show what you have. That's why my panties are also here. You have to show what is there, what is necessary... like breathing or digesting. This is all metabolism.

You put a long title on this exhibition: Babypropagandaddy's Metabolismys (Fishyalarm In Antarktika On Bohrinsel "Moomin")...

The Moomins are very important of course. They are baby animals, they come from the sea. They are so important. They know everything. They are total art. They have no problem with Adolf Hitler for example. We have a problem because we are so stupid. But these animals, they have no problem. This shark... or this cat have no problem with Adolf Hitler. This is super. I think it is wonderful. We have a problem because we are so poor. We are so stupid... also sexuality have no problem with Adolf Hitler... skin have no problem. Only our silly brains.

So you have all this stuff. All these will be framed and put into the show. They said to me that I should do an artist book. so there it is. It's an homage to Scarlet Johansen of course, who is again the main figure. And here... this is the mouth of Scarlet Johansen, this is the mouth of Claudia Schiffer. and their noses. And this is me in between.

Same picture you showed in Malmö isn't it?

Yes, it's a little bit different. But i think I made it on the same day. It was exactly that day where I looked like that. I never looked liked that again. [laughing]

This is in my old home. I love noses and mouths. We don't need more. Smelling and eating, that's all.

You do not need to be able to see?

No

Jonathan Meese: BABYPROPAGANDADDY'S Metabolismys (FISHYALARM IN ANTARKTIKA ON BOHRINSEL "MOOMIN") at Galleri Bo Bjerggaard

What about art then?

Art looks at us, that is enough. We don't have to look at it. It looks at us, we are toys of art. Art does with us what it wants to do.

And it does not really care?

No. This sculpture is not interested in me. Whether I'm sleeping or angry... doesn't care. It's happy in itself.. or unhappy, I don't know.

You are very prolific

Yeah. I love to do a lot of stuff. I think it is very important. If you don't do a lot of stuff, you think too much about you have done.

<vb>So you work, work, work...

Work, work, work. Do something to do the next. This is very important. Keep going, like breathing. The next breath comes. Don't think to much about you're breath. You're breath is not interested in what you think, it just comes. Then the best comes. If I think to much about this, then it would be very boring.

So you improvise?

Hhhmmm. No, not improvise. Improvise is too self-centred. It's more like digestion. It happens. Like closing you're eyes and then opening them again.

Jonathan Meese: NASCHKÄTZCHEN'S Menschenzunge des BANANENFROSCHKAISERS DURSTYS, 2008. 240 x 360 cm. Olie, foto på lærred, på 3 plader

You did this thing at Volksbühne. How was it to work in such a structure like at theatre?

It was very strange. These people didn't understand when I said just do what is necessary. They always wanted the boss that tells them what to do. The boss is the stage. No human being is the boss. The boss is the situation in itself. Then you can play. Play without any ritual. No cult. No culture please. Art is no culture. There is a total difference. They wanted to do culture. I'm only interested in art. That means just start playing - play until you are tired and then going to bed and then start playing again the next day.

Simple...

Very simple, but they could not understand it. They where too professional. They where always thinking about what they where doing. They always wanted to know in advance how they would look on stage - what would happen. In German it says "Wie Sie davon kommen - Wie Sie dabei weg gekommen" - it's an expression in German. They wanted to be on the safe side. Always wondering how they would look when the audience are looking, but the audience is not important. The stage looks at you. The atmosphere in itself. You don't have to be prepared. You just go for it. This was very very difficult. Because they where so stuck in their own mirror. They where always looking to the mirror. "How did I look?" "Is it cool enough what I'm doing?" "Is it right?" Am i right?" "Am I on the right side of life?" This is not interesting.

You never have this kind of considerations when you do a show?

No, never. Absolutely never. I always feel that it is ok when I'm playing. I always feel secure and happy. Like a child playing in the bathtub.

Jonathan Meese: DR. Scarlettier Baby's Mumin, 2008. 210 x 140 x 4.10 cm. Olie, blandteknik på lærred		Jonathan Meese: DR. LOLLYLOLLYLOLLY de Keksslip sagt zum süssen Partie-Parlament der Diktatur der Kunst: Kunst ist kein Geld, also Kunst ist kein Menschengeld, also Kunst = Geld, llutsch es weg, ihr Demütigen, 2008. 210 x 140 cm. Blandteknik, olie på lærred		Jonathan Meese: BECKY FILLTHEGRITH hat Geburtstag, IHR MENSCHN´S, 2008. 40 x 30 cm. Akryl, olie og blandteknik på lærred

When you do a room like this.. How do you do it?

Instinctively. i immediately notice whether it's ok or not. It's not my creativity that brings me further, it's my instinct. Like a shark looking for food. And this cannot happen if you wait too long or think too much. Then the food is gone. In art you have to be very fats. And don't suffer. Suffering in art is very bad. Don't walk around with a serious face and think you do serious really important stuff. That is culture. If you think its very important then you do culture. Then you serve death. Culture is serving death. That is religion. To do art is to produce toys, and that's always life. Culture is a program to make people small. To make them very special. "Wow, you are a great culture person you are a good artist culture person. I love the word art - i hate the word culture.

What about the word artist?

It's also not so nice. Play, playing baby animal is nicer. Or just human being. And when the art rules the world, when art is in power, then the artist disappears anyway.

Because all of us become artists?

Yes

Everything is art?

Everything is art and everybody will produce toys. Everything is super. I always hated the word artist. But it's ok as long as the art is not ruling. We still have politicians in power. No thank you, they should all go home. They should sleep and play and leave the power to art. Human being cannot deal with power. They are not made for that. Power is good for sharks. Human beings should stop dealing with power. They should give the power to art and say "We are too weak, we want to play, we are nice to each other, we love each other, we smell each others panties, that is enough. It's super. Japanese panties, schoolgirl panties are the best. Total art. Absolutely, they are objects, spiritual objects. Like christmas presents. Very sweet things. Like noses or mouths or jewellery. But humans should go home and leave the power. It's not good for their lives. They will always misuse the power. They cannot use it. They are too weak for that.

Jonathan Meese: BABYPROPAGANDADDY'S Metabolismys (FISHYALARM IN ANTARKTIKA ON BOHRINSEL "MOOMIN") at Galleri Bo Bjerggaard		Jonathan Meese: BABYPROPAGANDADDY'S Metabolismys (FISHYALARM IN ANTARKTIKA ON BOHRINSEL "MOOMIN") at Galleri Bo Bjerggaard

How long will you be in town?

Just to more says. I will continue later here today, and them maybe tomorrow morning and then maybe its finished. I also do 4 o 5 videos. I did two now in the hotel this hotel this morning. And yesterday we did one around here, an we will present this here in the show. A friend of mine is cutting them. So it's always using the possibilities, the hotel room, this area is very nice, the gallery, the clock outside. There are so many nice things to use.

What else to say... It's like metabolism. It's like sweating. Art is like sweating. Nothing special, you cannot lean it. You sweat, you do not learn it, its a natural process. And this is something that people should really start to notice, also in art schools. There is nothing to learn. Just sweat. Just sleep, digest, urinate, eat, be friendly, dream. In art schools you learn to be a culture person. They manipulate you're brain. When you really believe in culture you're brainwashed. You're dead.

Jonathan Meese: BABYPROPAGANDADDY'S Metabolismys (FISHYALARM IN ANTARKTIKA ON BOHRINSEL "MOOMIN") at Galleri Bo Bjerggaard		Jonathan Meese: BABYPROPAGANDADDY'S Metabolismys (FISHYALARM IN ANTARKTIKA ON BOHRINSEL "MOOMIN") at Galleri Bo Bjerggaard

You where in art school yourself

Yes, but I was not brainwashed. I came there very naive and playful, and then suddenly i noticed this smell of pressure. The smell of putting the screw into you, using you as a screw. But I said" No thank you, I don't want to be the screw" I want to be the screw of art, but not of you humans. And they accepted that. It's not so difficult to say no. You do not have to learn to be a culture person. At my time, 15 years ago, it was very playful, especially in Hamburg. But now it's very beaurocratic, it has become very beaurocratic in art schools. They should just play in the rhythm of their digestion.

In you're opinion - as an artist - you cant really develop yourself, you're art is not getting better or more precise

No. It's impossible. this is a myth. This is what they want you to think, so you come into a chock. so you are only concerned about yourself. "Oh, I have to develop". No, you have to play. A child play without development. When development come the child are a grown up. He might play to be a king or the leader of a county or a fish or a biscuit. But then at a certain age, we say; you have to be what you represent, and you cannot change. And especially in art schools, where they always say it's so free, it's not at all free. It's the most pressured thing because culture is so important in our days. It gets more and more important. But what is important is that they want you to be a culture person.

Thank you very much

From the opening:

collector Jens-Petr Brask		cool french style intellectual Toke Lykkeberg
kopenhagens Lene Rottensten		Artiste primeur Ivan Andersen
Folk star Per Kristensen arriving with charming company		kopenhagens Bianca D'Alessandro
Artbook publisher Jesper Fabricius was baffled		Gallery owner Bo Bjerggaard in conversation with artist Jonas Pihl and Wonderlands Simon Nygaard
V1 Gallery owner Jesper Elg		Artist Elina Merenmies
Art critic Peter Michael Hornung		Jonathan Meese charmed by Wonderlands AnneSophie Hardinger
Fashion artist Helle Mardahl		Copenhagens most charming architect Lene Mirdal