ASH interview: Backjumps - the live issue#2

ASH: Dogs and Dancers, 2005.

Your piece at Backjumps consists of a pattern of black and green figures (humans and dogs) in a room with a green carpet and black leaves on the floor. Can you tell us about the idea behind your work?

My work is about a feeling that I have regarding urban environment and the country. I work a lot on that subject. I have been walking around cities all my life, and I continuously try to pay attention to stuff that is going on, new experiences, and then I use it in my work. In this particular show I work with a symbolism of beauty and violence. I use dogs to represent the violence and angriness. I use shadows from real pictures of pitbulls, so in fact my work are much ’softer’ than if you look at the original pictures. In these pictures the violence of the animals are very explicit.

I use the dancers to symbolize beauty, and thereby the different movements of the city. Then I integrate the nature, which is something very big in my life, because I grew up in the country as a kid. So my life story represents a confrontation between city life and country life. The black leaves symbolize the fall from the elements, but it’s also a way to represent the darkness in the city.

ASH: Dogs and Dancers, 2005.		ASH: Dogs and Dancers, 2005.

ASH: Dogs and Dancers, 2005.		ASH: Dogs and Dancers, 2005.

How did you develope this very tight and recognizable style of yours?

I worked in the streets for many years in dirty places with black and white, and got painting all over my hands, face and clothing. I really enjoyed that time, but I think that if you just continue to work in the same way during the years, you will loose the originality of your work. I like to extinguish myself from the masses – then you get noticed. I use a technique with foil now, because it’s so fast and easy to work with. It’s a very simple way of getting your ideas done. If I should have made my piece at the show with paint, it would have been taking me a whole week to finish it.

You have a very clean style compared to many of the other participating artists at the show?

I like trashy stuff, but I think that at this show, even people that normally do very clean pieces have become more trashy. But there needs to be a mix, it would be boring if everybody had the same style.

Åbningen af Backjumps The Live Issue #2

What do you think of the ideas behind the Backjumps exhibition?

I have known Adrian Nabi for many years, he used to be my manager in Berlin. Backjumps have progressed a lot over the years and I’m very happy that it has come to this point, because he has been fighting so much for it, and has defended this particular art form. He was lucky to met Stéphane from Kunstraum Bethanien, who has been very helpful with putting all Adrian’s ideas into action, and has helped him with finances. So I think it’s a very good initiative for Berlin. Especially as Berlin is a town with a tradition for people writing on the wall/Wall.

Backjumps #2 has expanded its program, and are involving the actual streets of Berlin during the show, so this year it’s not only an exhibition in the Kunstraum Bethanien. Do you think this is a reaction to the fact that so many street artists are exhibiting in galleries now?

I think there is a natural development to anything. The fact that people put their stuff into galleries, only makes this kind of art seen by people who wouldn’t have seen it otherwise, I mean if it was only in the streets. Some stuff has a lot of power in the streets, and it looses it in the gallery, but it also works the other way around. Personally I try to keep the power from the streets, and then bring it inside the gallery. But I do different stuff when I make things in the streets, than when I exhibit inside. It’s simply not possible for me to do the same thing at two so different locations. But I think it’s a natural evolution that street art now can be seen at galleries. If you want to develop your style, it’s actually rather limited what you can possibly do in the streets; you have to use special techniques that allow you to work very fast. But people of course are original in finding new ways and expressions. But the gallery still is necessary, and I think Backjumps has a very good concept.

Delta / Mode 2 / Futura: Untitled, 2005. paint

Delta / Mode 2 / Futura: Untitled, 2005. paint		Delta / Mode 2 / Futura: Untitled, 2005. paint
Delta / Mode 2 / Futura: Untitled, 2005. paint		Delta / Mode 2 / Futura: Untitled, 2005. paint

Have you noticed a development in the street art since the first Backjumps two years ago compared to now?

Most certainly, because two years ago other artists were involved such as Banksy and André Giant, and therefore there was another atmosphere. This time it’s more like New York City typical graffiti guys, and also more so called street artists coming from art schools. Therefore it’s more a mix of people this time, which is good. I think there are a lot of great artists this time, but I don’t think the works are as good as they were two years ago.

Why do you think there wasn’t invited more artists from Denmark this time?

People from Denmark are not very good at promoting themselves internationally. HuskMitNavn was the only one from DK besides me...

Yes, because the last time there were several artists from Copenhagen. Do you think that the reason could be, that the whole street art scene in Copenhagen experienced such a hype two years ago, and therefore quickly lost interest for both artists and audience?

I don’t like hype! It kills things that actually have a soul. Just because some kids from art schools came out and made some stuff in the streets, it was suddenly labelled street art. Graffiti and people creating stuff in the streets have been going on for many years now. I lived in Paris doing my teens, and there were people doing very beautiful stencil works like Miss Tic and Blek le Rat – nobody called their stuff street art!

Swoon: Untitled, 2005.

Swoon: Untitled, 2005.

Swoon: Untitled, 2005.		Swoon: Untitled, 2005.
Swoon: Untitled, 2005.		Swoon: Untitled, 2005.

Do you think there was something or somebody missing at this years’ programme at Backjumps?

There is always somebody missing. I would have loved if there had been more people from Copenhagen, there are some very talented artists here, who have been involved in street art for many years. But again, they should promote themselves more, and maybe people are not that original either? Backjumps represents what is going on right now, and are not necessarily showing people that have been active for a long time...But it would have been very interesting if there had been different sections at the exhibition with different styles, new and old people etc. My critique to Backjumps is, that there was a lack of directions and guide lines. People just showed up and took whatever place and room they liked. This has resulted in a rather chaotic exhibition where sounds, artists and works are clashing.

Do you think there will be Backjumps also in two or ten years?

Oh yes, certainly! Backjumps has so much success right now, and many private companies are interested in investing money in the projects. Like the Fox Project in Copenhagen. The companies are ready to spend a great deal of money on projects like that.

Do you think that the street art scene will be absorbed by these commercial strategies, or can it survive its being used in commercials and still exist as a anarchistic style ruling in the streets against the establishment?

That’s exactly why I said, I don’t like hype. The reason why things get destroyed and the soul of it disappears, is when people decides to sell their stuff to anybody. I can understand why they do it, but you have to do it in a smart way. Companies use you and you use them, but at the same time you have to make sure, that you will not just be a ’hit and run’. You have to keep on seriously with your work to preserve your integrity as an artist.

Freaklüb: Frogs and Poison, 2005. installation

Freaklüb: Frogs and Poison, 2005. installation		Freaklüb: Frogs and Poison, 2005. installation

But the FOX project for example, was there any money for the artists involved or did they just get a room to decorate and their materials for free?

People got paid very well. Some people staid here for one month, earned a lot of money and had a good time. I wasn’t deeply involved in the project, but they invited me and everybody was happy. I’m not Danish, but I have lived here for several years now, and I think there is a mentality going on here that finds it very problematic when art gets money. But come on, how should we live? Should we live like van Gogh or what? Of course we also have to make money, and if artists can live from their art then it is only a very good thing! Only you have to be very careful, because as I said before, the hype can kill everything.

Other artist can easily sell their works without anybody having problems with it. Why do you think it poses so many problems in your specific genre?

You now, I come from a very old graffiti scene, but I have developed my style over the years. What I do today is very different from the things I did 20 or 10 years ago, but my ideology has always been the same: to stay out of politics! I’m an anarchist and I don’t care about politics. It’s like when we spoke about Berlin, I think that the reason why the Wall fell, it was because people actually didn’t make politics about it anymore. Paint made the Wall fall, because people didn’t went there because of its political symbolism anymore, but to see the new pieces or to paint one. When the political symbolism vanishes, so why don’t we just break it down? That’s the reason why I don’t make politics. I have no problem about doing things for companies as long as my message is still there. They use me, and I use them!

So your point is that the Danish artists should know how to promote themselves more, and not be so afraid of earning money on their productions?

I was so surprised when I saw a poster from Enhedslisten at Nørrebro saying something like:”Reklamefolk ud af byen. Fuck Fox”. It was a poster directed explicitly against the Fox Project. How can people spend their time and energy doing things like that?! It’s completely unbelievable! Graffiti artists need money to travel around Europe and the world to make their pieces, and it’s only smart when they can do business like the Fox Project. It’s a win-win situation. The only reason why I can travel around the world, and also live here in DK, it’s because I do commercial stuff. If you refuse, you are forced to live in a shithole. You will never be able to travel, and thereby develop your style. I try to look at it this way.

Os Gemeos: Bunker, 2005.

Jonone

Jonone: C-LO, 2005.

Lokiss at work		Lokiss

Lokiss: The Trouble – The Requim, 2005. video, mixed media		Lokiss: The Trouble – The Requim, 2005. video, mixed media
Lokiss: The Trouble – The Requim, 2005. video, mixed media		Lokiss: The Trouble – The Requim, 2005. video, mixed media

Brad Downey & Darius Jones: Our Work makes us Free, 2004-05. Mixed media

Brad Downey & Darius Jones: Our Work makes us Free, 2004-05. Mixed media		Brad Downey & Darius Jones: Our Work makes us Free, 2004-05. Mixed media		Brad Downey & Darius Jones: Our Work makes us Free, 2004-05. Mixed media
Brad Downey & Darius Jones: Our Work makes us Free, 2004-05. Mixed media		Brad Downey & Darius Jones: Our Work makes us Free, 2004-05. Mixed media		Brad Downey & Darius Jones: Our Work makes us Free, 2004-05. Mixed media